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RFC Wireless Detachment

Printed From: Cross & Cockade
Category: General Discussion
Forum Name: General
Forum Discription: General Discussion
URL: http://www.crossandcockade.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=163
Printed Date: 23 Sep 2020 at 15:55
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 10.03 - http://www.webwizforums.com


Topic: RFC Wireless Detachment
Posted By: JoyP
Subject: RFC Wireless Detachment
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2009 at 10:26
Have any members ever come across this unit?  I have been trying for years to trace it in order to piece together my father's WW1 service history.

I have photos of him in uniform (three stripes which I presume is corporal?); a scroll of the complete unit with the embedded caption "Royal Flying Corps Wireless Detachment February 1916"  and the note that came with his medals which has given me an (RAF) service number.

From the very little he ever spoke on the subject, I know that he was at Ypres.  He told of taking part in some kind of wireless trials and received some kind of disciplinary action after failing to report a german smoke screen which he mistook for mist.  

I found an obscure note in the TNA medal roll search tips that says RFC records for those in action 1916 onwards have not been released by the Air Ministry .  I followed this up with them and contacted the MODs Service Personnel and Veterans Agency as per TNA advice, but had no response (I also wrote to them years ago - again no response)

I have looked at the list of burned documents but this is inconclusive

I have tried the RAF Museum Research & Info Services - no response

Can anyone give me any other suggestions? 

I have given up hope of finding anything personal to him, but would just like to discover some kind of general record of this unit's war.  I'd be exceedingly grateful of any help or suggestion.


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Replies:
Posted By: ROBPUGH
Date Posted: 22 Nov 2009 at 20:06
Hi JoyP,
 
Because your father transferred from the Royal Flying Corps to the Royal Air Force, his army service record will no longer exist, but his Air Force service record will. This will only show postings from 1 April 1918, the date the Royal Air Force was formed.
If you let me know his service number i might be able to help you with some information and point you in the right direction.
 
All the best,
 
Rob.


Posted By: JoyP
Date Posted: 23 Nov 2009 at 10:19
Hi Rob - he was George William Wingrove &  RAF No. is 10460

Many thanks for any help.  I don't know when he was demobbed - I assume 1918.  The date on the medal forms  493 is 20. 7. 21

My grandfather was also in the RFC and survived the war, another George Wingrove (but possibly listed with initial B) but I have no service number for him.

I have scanned the Wireless Detachment scroll (about 300 men) as it is deteriorating now, and will be happy to send copies to anyone who has a connection to or interest in the unit.

Regards - Joy


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Visit http://genclub.co.uk/heirlooms.html for a WW1 Puzzle


Posted By: WrightBrother
Date Posted: 23 Nov 2009 at 11:10
Joy,  In C&CI Journal Vol 30 No 4, there is an article entitled 'It's Good to Talk' covering No 9 (Wireless)Sqdn RFC, which was formed in France in December 1914.  Possibly your father was with this unit?
 
Copies of this issue are still available from the Sales Managers, 6 Cowper Road, Southgate, LONDON N14 5RP, at a very reasonable price.
 
Peter Wright.   


Posted By: JoyP
Date Posted: 23 Nov 2009 at 12:18
Hello Peter - many thanks for this contribution.  I'd be happy to buy anything useful, but I have a copy of the work by AC Peter Dye that this article is probably based on entitled:  No.9 (Wireless) Sqdn 1914-1915

In it he states that:

 

9 (Wireless) Squadron was formally disbanded in France on 22 March 1915… Capt Dowding, …, returned to England to form the cadre of a new 9 Squadron at Brooklands.”

 

I believe my father joined the new unit, as I have a picture of it dated 1916, and it's that new unit I'm  interested in.  However – I cannot discover anything further about the new unit or its deployments.  Do you know if the article covers this, or is it just on the original Sqn?

Many thanks for any more help you can give.

Regards, Joy




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Posted By: WrightBrother
Date Posted: 23 Nov 2009 at 14:38
RFC Wireless Unit


Posted By: WrightBrother
Date Posted: 23 Nov 2009 at 14:45
Joy,  The article I listed earlier is about the original wireless sqdn, so that is too early.  Your father was a Sergeant having three stripes. As you are his daughter, you are fully entitled to have a copy of his Service Record from RAF Records. I am not certain they are still based at RAF Innsworth in Glos, but try to contact this section. You will most likely have to provide a copy of your birth cert and pay a fee. He should be listed in the Other Ranks Service Records at the NA, under classification AIR 79. I hope some of this will help you.      Peter Wright. 


Posted By: JoyP
Date Posted: 23 Nov 2009 at 17:00
Hi Peter - I'm pretty sure I searched the Air 79 index in Air 78 last time I was at Kew but to no avail.  I've just tried another search online, by name and by service no. but that came up with nothing too.  I'll take another look when I go again, but that's not likely to be all that soon.

Many thanks for so much thought and the suggestion though.

Kind regards, Joy


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Posted By: ROBPUGH
Date Posted: 23 Nov 2009 at 18:29

Hi Joy,

 

Administrative Wing R.F.C. Daily Routine Orders 16 Aug – 30 Oct 1915 (AIR1/2173/209/13/3) states: -

 

Recruits enlisted under the Special Army Order 4th August 1914: -

10460. 2/AM. Wingrove G.W. Attested 19/10/15. Joined 20/10/15.

Clerk for Telegraphist Learner. Rated 2/-.

(The Special Army Order 4th August 1914 allowed men to join for the duration of the war. His civilian trade was Clerk).

 

The Royal Air Force 1 April 1918 Muster Roll (AIR10/237) states: -

 

Air Force No: 10460

Name: Wingrove, G.W.

R.N.A.S. or R.F.C. Trade Classification: Wireless Operator.

Remustered to Air Force Trade Classification: Wireless Operator.

R.N.A.S. Rating or R.F.C. Rank or Appointment: Air Mechanic 1.

New Rank in Air Force: Air Mechanic 1.

Date of Joining: 19 October 1915. (This means date Attested/Enlisted)

Date of Last Promotion: 1 July 1917.

Normal Rate Air Force Pay: 4s 0d.

Terms of Enlistment: Duration of War.

 

His Service Record will be held at the National Archives in AIR79/132.

 

Hope this helps,

 

Rob.


Posted By: JoyP
Date Posted: 23 Nov 2009 at 18:38
Rob you are an absolute star!  If his service record is there I presume it will give me details of what/where/when he did what during those terrible years.

Thank you so much for this - after so many brick walls I'm just astounded.  I had given up hope of ever finding any personal data.  Any chance you could weave that same magic to find details my Grandfather George (B?) Wingrove?  He probably joined up at the same time.

Kindest regards, Joy


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Visit http://genclub.co.uk/heirlooms.html for a WW1 Puzzle


Posted By: ROBPUGH
Date Posted: 23 Nov 2009 at 19:16
Hi Joy,
The standard First World War RAF service record is two pages long and usually contains the following information: -
 
Service Number.
Name.
Date and place of birth.
Date of enlistment and terms of service.
Civilian occupation.
Marriage details if married.
Next of kin.
Description on enlistment, ie height, hair colour etc.
Date of discharge.
Home address at time of discharge.
Promotions and Appointments.
Medals awarded and dates of service overseas.
Postings, ie Units served with.
 
Please note, the record will only show his postings from 1 April 1918, the date the RAF was formed.
 
You can order copies of documents via the National Archives website using their Digital Express Copy service. If your prepared to pay £8.50 they will take a digital photo of the document requested (up to 8 pages) and send it to you by email.
 
The information they would need is the document referance number, ie AIR79/132, and exactly what it is you want copying, ie all pages of the service record of 10460 G.W. Wingrove.
 
Hope this helps. I'll see if I can find your Grandfather's service number.
I'd love a copy of your Wireless Detachment Scroll if thats ok.
 
All the best,
 
Rob.
 
email: mailto:RMPUGH@TISCALI.CO.UK - RMPUGH@TISCALI.CO.UK
 


Posted By: JoyP
Date Posted: 24 Nov 2009 at 14:53
More and yet more thanks Rob.  This is great - and I wondered if this would be enough info to order the documents online, so thanks for confirming that for me.

I have had to scan the scroll in sections, but they will be on their way to you in the next few minutes.

Kind regards, Joy



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