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What is it?

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John-G View Drop Down
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    Posted: 13 Apr 2011 at 18:40

I know it is not strictly WW1, but can any one identify this a/c?

 

 
Cheers
 
huckj
 
 
 
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NickForder View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickForder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Apr 2011 at 08:48
Sopwith Dove ?
 
"10 Doves were made by the Sopwith works: G-EACM (K-122), G-EACU (K-133) G–EAFI (K-148) G–EAGA (K-157) and G–EAHP (K-168) which were all sold abroad, G-EAJI, G-EAJJ, G-EAKH and G-EAKT (were sold to Australia and G-EBKY, which remained in UK and was converted to a Pup in the Shuttleworth collection."  ref : http://www.sopwithmike.org.uk/html/dove.html
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John-G View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John-G Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Apr 2011 at 09:56

Good morning Nick,

I am not sure about it being a Dove.  I believe the photo was taken at Castle Bromwich in 1923 during the Kings Cup Air race, according to Flight there were no Dove's taking part in the race, but there was a Gnu G-EAGP.  There is a photo in Flight 1923 page 0397 of the a/c taking off and unlike other Gnu's it does not appear to have a cabin for the passengers.  Sorry I cannot post the photo but it is in a pdf and I cannot copy it.

 

 

 
HuckJ
 
 
 
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NickForder View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickForder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Apr 2011 at 10:33
I think that we are agreed that it is a Sopwith ?
The Gnu has two-bay rounded tip wings and an enclosed rear cockpit. The production Dove has swept back wings.
The photo seems to have standard Pup type wings, with no sweepback and a leading edge longer than the trailing edge and no enclosed rear cockpit. Thus it doesn't really fit either of them ! Hard to tell with it is two-bay or not.
 
G-EAGP (c/n WO2976/3, formerly K-163) was registered on 12.7.1919 (172) and sold to Lt Col FK McLean. It was then sold to Major SA Packman. Though recorded as 'sold abroad' in November 1921, it crashed on 2 May 1926 near King's Lynn. It was then owned by the Southern Counties  Aviation Company.
Date: 02-MAY-1926
Time:
Type: Sopwith Gnu
Operator: Southern Counties Aviation Co.
Registration: G-EAGP
C/n / msn: WO 2976/3
Fatalities: Fatalities: / Occupants:
Airplane damage:
Location: Kings Lynn, Norfolk
Date: 02-MAY-1926
Time:
Type: Sopwith Gnu
Operator: Southern Counties Aviation Co.
Registration: G-EAGP
C/n / msn: WO 2976/3
Fatalities: Fatalities: / Occupants:
Airplane damage:
Location: Kings Lynn, Norfolk
Date: 02-MAY-1926
Time:
Type: Sopwith Gnu
Operator: Southern Counties Aviation Co.
Registration: G-EAGP
C/n / msn: WO 2976/3
Fatalities: Fatalities: / Occupants:
Airplane damage:
Location: Kings Lynn, Norfolk
 
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John-G View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John-G Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Apr 2011 at 14:00
Hi Nick,
I think there may have been another possibility, that is that the aeroplane pictured was not a competitor but a visitor to the aerodrome to watch the goings on?  I think I might have to note it as an unknown aeroplane and leave it at that
Mind the Flight picture does not look much like Gnu's pictured in Putnams Sopwith book.
 
Cheers
 
huckj
 
 
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AndyK View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote AndyK Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Apr 2011 at 14:01
Hi All
 
It ain't a Dove - that's for sure. The front fuselage is all wrong, the u/c is too wide and the c/s struts are in the wrong place.
 
The layout all fits for the Gnu - except the rear cabin. However, according to King (Sopwith Aircraft 1912-20), this was dispensed with after K-140, with passegers sitting side by side in the "open air" - exactly as per the Flight photo. FK McLean's aircraft, that took part in the 1923 was K-163 before being re-numbered G-EAGP.
 
I hope that sorts it!

Cheers,

AndyK
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John-G View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote John-G Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Apr 2011 at 14:04
Cheers Andy,
 
Thanks for the information.
 
huckj
 
 
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NickForder View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickForder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Apr 2011 at 14:10
Ah ! The advantages of working at home and having your library to hand....
 
Here's some Camel footage as a reward.....!
 
http://aso.gov.au/titles/historical/australian-flying-corps-france/clip1/
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Jonathan Saunders View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jonathan Saunders Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Apr 2011 at 16:43
Brilliant film clip!  Many thanks for posting the link.
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NickForder View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote NickForder Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: 14 Apr 2011 at 17:19
Should have mention that on the same site is gunnery training and
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